BMW M3 Coupe S85B50 V10

[sergey_e30]

Hello!

 

Ich bin ein BMW E30 Enthusiast aus Russland, ich möchte Ihnen mein Projekt vorstellen. Leider spreche ich kein Deutsch, deshalb werde ich auf Englisch schreiben.

 

I am a BMW E30 enthusiast from Russia, I want to present my project to you. Unfortunately, I do not speak German, so I will write in English.

 

For the first time I saw this E30 in the year 2005-2006, when it was brought from St. Petersburg to a friend in the Moscow service with an ambitious project to make a replica of the M3 E30. All new original body parts were bought (bumpers, door sills, spoilers, rear window frame, fenders, inner arches and many other little things) and chassis parts that distinguish the usual E30 from the M3.

 

The body of the car was in excellent condition, so the alteration process was relatively simple and quick, the body was completely sand-covered.

 

M3 elements were welded to it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After that, the project slowed down and, after changing several services in Moscow and St. Petersburg, finally stopped around 2010.

 

One spring morning in 2019 began with the traditional viewing of the BMW E30 forum. In one of the topics I come across a message that the owner of this car is offering it for sale. In a couple of days in the morning my friend and I will start in St. Petersburg on Nissan Pathfinder. The road, especially in the toll sections, is super. In 7-8 hours we are already in St. Petersburg and with beer I look forward to tomorrow's meeting with the car, more precisely, with a body on wheels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Already at 10 am we were there. In principle, the car fully met my expectations. During rolling it over various services, many small scratches appeared and big problems of the previous painting got out. The car required another complete repainting, but there was no rust anywhere. A bunch of spare parts were attached to the body (bumpers, sills, trunk, spoilers were completely new, they had not even been painted yet) and after a little bargaining on the price for additional parts, we shook hands. It was not possible to pick up the body immediately, because the entrance to the garage was heavily covered with snow

 

 

 

 

and we agreed that we would pick up the spare parts now and send a tow truck for the body as the snow melts. Spare parts were loaded into our Nissan and we went to St. Petersburg, and the next day we were in Moscow.

 

About 3 weeks later, a tow truck brought car to Moscow.

 

 

 

To be continued…

Bearbeitet: 4. April 2021 von sergey_e30

[sergey_e30]

The body kit included a half-installed S38B36.

 

 

For his swap into this car in 2008, a good M5 E34 was bought and this engine was removed from it. He didn’t suit me at all due to the fact that he doesn’t get up very well in E30, and he doesn’t ride fantastically. The S14, which was regularly installed in the M3 E30, was also rejected almost immediately, firstly, it was unjustifiably expensive, secondly it was going badly, and thirdly and most importantly: in 2008 I brought myself an original M3 E30 from America, and two cars with S14 are somehow not interesting. We also inserted the S50 and S54 into the E30 several times and did not want to repeat it. The S65 disappeared due to the fact that it is practically a copy of the S85, only 2 cylinders less (why put 8 cylinders, if 10 is possible))). Then the idea of the S55 from the F80 appeared, but I don't really like its appearance under the hood, and there is also an E30 325iX with a turbo M50

 

 

and I didn't really want another turbo.

 

In short, the choice finally fell on the S85 as the pinnacle of atmospheric engine building at BMW.

 

 

In 2005, the S85B50 won for the first time in the annual International Engine of the Year in four different categories: International Engine of the Year Best Engine Performance Best New Engine Best Engine Over 4.0 L The following year, he again won in three categories: "International Engine of the Year" "Best engine performance" "Best engine over 4.0 liters" In 2007, for the third time in a row, he received the highest points in the following categories: "Best engine performance" "Best engine over 4.0 liters" In 2008, he won only one category, but this is the fourth time in a row: "Best engine over 4.0 liters"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sergey_e30]

Soon, my friends will have an M5 parse from England in Belarus. I knew the seller for a long time, called him, found out that the car was still in England, the car after a minor accident, the engine mileage is about 100 thousand km and it is possible to start it and shoot a video of the work. After watching the video, I decided to buy, bargained a little and after about a month I took the motor from the transport. First impression: how big it is !!! you can't insert it into a small E30))) !!!.

 

 

[sergey_e30]

4 months later we washed the engine a little and began to disassemble it. We removed the attachment, the manifold and reached the engine oil pan. We took it off and saw such a surprise ... and this is the engine, which, judging by the video, started and worked ...

 

 

 

To say that I was upset is to say nothing. The first desire after I saw this was to immediately stop this project.

 

It turned out that the vanos pump had collapsed, which pumps 200bar to rotate them quickly.

 

 

A used pump costs about 500 euros, and a new one costs about 1500 euros and I'm starting to feel even more sad. And most importantly, I understand that the engine could not work with such damage (except, of course, the smallest likelihood that the pump collapsed at the moment when the car was turned off after filming a video) and inside everything could be even worse, because the main oil pump is driven from the vanos pump and without it it cannot work, so the oil pressure in the engine is zero ...

 

Here, of course, there is a part of my fault that I did not immediately disassemble it, but shoved it into the garage for 4 months, but most likely it would not change anything, but would lead to a quick end of the project.

 

In the evening, thinking on a drunken head and reading on the Internet about all the problems of this engine (crankshaft wear, block scuffs, breakdown of everything related to vanos, breakdown of gears in throttle drives, breakdown of idle valves and ion blocks), I decided to continue this crazy project ... And yes, smart people read about problems with a motor before buying it, and I after.

[sergey_e30]

It's time to select a gearbox.

 

And for now, we decided to follow the path of the old reliable Getrag 265 gearbox from the M30. A big plus of this gearbox is in a removable bell, which, firstly, makes it easier to dock with the block, and secondly, makes it much easier to replace it on the car. We have no doubts that this gearbox will withstand the power of the S85. even Getrag 260 lived without any problems on our turbo machines in drag with a capacity of 600-750hp. And the 5th overdrive allows you to put a shorter gearbox. In addition, the legendary dogleg geabox is installed instead of it without any problems; it will also be interesting to try it.

 

To dock the bell of our gearbox with the engine block, we bought a broken automatic transmission from an S85. Also we rented a parts of the S85 engine (empty block, oil pan, heads).

The front piece of the bell was cut off from the automatic transmission,

 

 

 

rear from the mechanics, everything is centered,

 

 

 

measured to length and welded.

 

 

 

 

 

Try on the block

 

 

 

The attachment of the gearbox to the engine is completed)))

[sergey_e30]

So, the gearbox is fitted to the engine and it's time to insert it into the engine of the car. But not everything is so fast))). 

 

As I wrote in the previous part, a parts of the S85 engine was rented from friends, so it was first inserted on the block of wood.

 

 

Fixed it

 

 

The catalysts were sawed off from the exhaust manifolds, they are definitely not needed, and they do not fit. It was a pleasant surprise that the pipe turned out to be exactly 63mm there, then we will weld the V-Band to it, but I thought that it was thicker and the diameter would have to be reduced, two 76mm pipes would be very difficult to place under the bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They put the collectors on their heads, they pass perfectly, they don't touch the body anywhere, there is no need to redo them.

 

 

It immediately became clear that there was no room for a vacuum brake booster, but so far they decided not to think about it and leave it “for later”.

[GaragenWerke]

WOW!

 

insane build! keep us updated here!

 

 

You can use a vakuum brakte booster like in the e34 / a lot of people use this construction with V8 swaps in E30.

Gearbox swap looks great, does it fit with the clutch assembly and so on? Starter?

[sergey_e30]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb GaragenWerke:

WOW!

 

insane build! keep us updated here!

 

 

You can use a vakuum brakte booster like in the e34 / a lot of people use this construction with V8 swaps in E30.

Gearbox swap looks great, does it fit with the clutch assembly and so on? Starter?

Thanks, about flywheel and clutch in next parts

 

I don`t want move brake booster to headlight, because this place will be the air filter housing

[sergey_e30]

We removed the engine oil pan a couple of weeks ago, now it's time to dock it to the front axle support. The main task was to push the motor as far as possible to the engine shield and adjust it in height so that the hood was closed and there was no need to make a hump on it.

 

Cut off a piece

 

 

Welded:

 

 

 

 

Then it became clear that, as expected, the original front axle support did not fit, we saw it 

 

 

 

And we begin to customize:

 

 

 

 

 

The front axle support with the steering gear was put in place, the engine with manifolds was lowered onto them, and it became clear that the steering column under the hood looks exactly at the exhaust manifold, and the engine cannot be raised higher, and it is not clear whether the hood will close or not ...

 

 

[GaragenWerke]

Looks great! 

 

Keep us updated :) 

[sergey_e30]

In the previous part, we stopped at the fact that the steering column under the hood looks exactly at the exhaust manifold, and the engine cannot be raised higher, and it is not clear whether the hood will close or not. There were two options for solving the problem: the first was to welded the exhaust manifold, the second was to move the place where the steering column exited the body. We chose the second option, if it was a real M3, then the first option would most likely be chosen, because it would be a shame to cut the body.

And now the grinder went into action again and we slightly lowered the place where the steering column exited the body. Now everything fits together.

 

 

 

 

 

Made the gearbox mounting bracket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We use original engine mounts, having slightly modified them.

 

We installed front axle support and steering rack on the car, lowered the engine to its mounts.

 

 

 

 

[sergey_e30]

The time has come to remove our model and install the main engine in place, but before that we had to make sure that it is generally alive. We removed the lower part of the engine block, the connecting rod caps. The connecting rod bushings are very worn out, but the crankshaft is without wear, there are no scuffs in the cylinders as far as from below !!! Here is a photo of the inserts, it is not mine, but the condition is about the same, maybe a little better.

 

 

New spare parts were ordered for the engine instead of the worn ones, and the engine was assembled, the oil pan and the collector were screwed to it and stuck under the hood.

 

 

 

We tried to put the intake manifold, the hood has a chance to close, without a hump in the style of American dragsters !!!

 

 

[sergey_e30]

The oil filter housing on the S85 is quite large, with outlets to the engine on one side and to the oil cooler on the other.

 

 

 

Finding a place for it was very difficult. Considering the outlets of the oil channels from the engine on the right side, there was a place to the right of the engine, between the bumper and the wheel arch liner, but on the e30 there is an air conditioner dehumidifier that I didn't really want to carry (yes, I also really wanted to leave the air conditioner, although at the first fitting it became clear that the original air conditioner pump from the S85 does not fit, and we need to either install another pump, or cut the body, as is usually done with the S85 swap).

 

Therefore, it was decided to install the oil filter housing to the left of the engine.

 

Welded oil pipes a little, made brackets

 

 

and the oil filter housing took its place.

 

 

 

 

 

I really didn’t want to install the zero resistance filter , so I had to slightly modify the original air filter housings.

Also we welded brackets for them

 

 

 

 

and installed. Looks great!

 

[GaragenWerke]

Looks great, good progress. A lot of detail work has to be done for those kind of swaps. Co to see the 'oldschool' way to do so, appreciate a lot that you a sharing all this! 

 

Keep on =) 

[sergey_e30]

Maybe someone can help me with my project?

 

I need a few original details from M3 E30 for my project:

Front left bumper bracket

Front a-pillar trim

Covering the sunroof mechanism

 

I have attached a photo of these parts, if not clear. A friend of mine in Munich can buy them for me if there are difficulties with shipping to Russia

 

 

 

 

[Cove]

Really nice built, keep it going and updating the thread. 

Are you sure you need the A-pillar covers of the M3 ? The covers of the normal e30 are available, new and not expensive at your dealer, should be around 15€ for each cover.
Part number left: 51431884373

Part number right: 51431884374

[sergey_e30]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb Cove:

Really nice built, keep it going and updating the thread. 

Are you sure you need the A-pillar covers of the M3 ? The covers of the normal e30 are available, new and not expensive at your dealer, should be around 15€ for each cover.
Part number left: 51431884373

Part number right: 51431884374

I need M3 A-pillar covers, not normal E30

Bearbeitet: 4. April 2021 von sergey_e30

[sergey_e30]

We continued to adjust everything, welded the water pipes.

 

 

 

I thought for a long time what to do with the expansion tank, I really wanted to leave the original from the S85, moving the power steering tank to the right, but the expansion tank from the S85 did not fit in any way, very high in height. Then we decided to use the original tank from the M3 E30, let me remind you that on the M3 it stands where the battery is on a regular car. The advantage of this tank is that, like the tank from the S85, it has two thin inlets from the radiator. We ordered a new tank, with a very long delivery time from Germany, as soon as it comes we will weld the brackets for it.

 

Then we moved on to the air conditioner pump. There was some very small compressor in the garage, most likely it was removed sometime from the S52 (it was also installed on the E36 with the M52 engine, the same was installed on the M42, but on that a pulley for a 4-ribbed belt, and this one on 5 ribbets). In general, the S85 has a 6-ribbed belt. the power steering pump is also driven from it, but nothing, and 5 ribbets should be enough.

 

Welded the pump bracket and installed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the alignment is met, the clearance from the body remained about 2 cm, given the solid engine mounts, it should be enough.

 

 

 

The outlets of the pump hoses are located quite conveniently, it should not be difficult to weld the tubes for them, but this was also left "for later", because ordered new original tubes, also with very long delivery time.

[sergey_e30]

And now we come close to the question that began to excite me very much even before buying the engine - about the engine control unit. For me, in general, this question seemed to be the most difficult in the whole swap, because for the normal operation of the original MSS65 engine control unit, a huge number of sensors with E60 are needed, which have nothing to do with the engine directly. Otherwise, the engine control unit falls into an error, the engine does not rotate more than 4-5 thousand, it does not give out power.

 

Several options were considered for solving the brain problem:

• Original engine control unit with an attempt to install all components that are necessary for correct operation, such as ABS, speed sensor, etc. (This option is very difficult to implement, since it would be necessary to install almost the entire E60 in the E30 together with comfort blocks, steering angle sensors, etc.)

 

 

• An original engine control unit with firmware from the well-known AWRON company, a video of how they start the S85 on the table can be easily found on the Internet (this option has one big drawback - a high price, about 5,000 euros, but according to many reviews it works well)

 

 

• The original engine control unit modified by less well-known companies (in Russia I have not yet been able to find those who can do this, and I didn’t want to hope for those who have never done this, and the timing and result are not predictable) ... Communication with those who installed the S85 abroad and flashed the MSS65 also did not lead to any positive results, everyone complains that after the flashing the motor does not work as we would like.

 

 

• Non-original engine control unit with the ability to control all S85 gadgets - 10 cylinders with the impossibility of paired-parallel ignition, 4 vanos, ion blocks, etc. (Only one such engine control unit was found - Pectel from Cosworth, the price of which in the required configuration exceeds all reasonable limits, and it is not clear who will undertake its setting)

 

 

• Non-original engine control unit with a simplified control circuit, rejection of vanos, ion blocks, etc. (this option is not very convenient due to possible losses of power and torque by the motor and difficulties with tuning)

 

 

 

 

 

[sergey_e30]

We have chosen an ABIT engine control unit (made in Russia), or rather two ABIT engine blocks, which will work together as a master and a slave, which will allow organizing 10 ignition channels.

Now I will try to explain why such a decision was made. There were several reasons:

• The main and decisive finally determining the choice in favor of a non-original engine control unit is the inoperability of the vanos pump. Of course, we could find a used pump or in the end buy a new one, but there were still other vanos elements, which are also far from new, and the cost of the entire new set of vanos exceeds the cost of the engine. In addition, after talking with those who removed the vanos, I realized to my surprise that almost all of them were unanimous in the opinion that without the vanos, the power grows, and the insignificant loss of momentum at the bottom is not felt in the light E30. The increase in power is explained by the fact that the vanos pump is installed on the crankshaft and must pump 200 bar of pressure into the vanos system, which leads to a power loss of about 50 hp, and the maximum angle of rotation of the shafts is used to quickly warm up the catalysts for the environment. Phase and shaft lift are quite suitable for work without vanos

• Low reliability of electronic units: throttle drives, idle valves

• It was ABIT that was chosen due to the fact that we have been cooperating with the tuner (Jan, RST) for a long time, he tuned all our turbo projects and I am satisfied with his work. In addition, he himself was interested in trying to connect two control units, and as my experience shows, the interest of people is half the battle.

In short, the choice was made. Time and dyno measurements will show whether it is correct or not. I give a graph of the motor from the Supersprint catalog with their exhaust, there is something to strive for.

[GaragenWerke]

interesting!
 

i worked with several free ecu's like MS, Trijekt, MaxxECU, ... i don't know the ABIT. 

Is there an english website available?

 

I totally understand why you don't use the OE ECU, i would not use it, too. 

Very interesting, keep us here updated please. :) 

[sergey_e30]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb GaragenWerke:

interesting!
 

i worked with several free ecu's like MS, Trijekt, MaxxECU, ... i don't know the ABIT. 

Is there an english website available?

 

I totally understand why you don't use the OE ECU, i would not use it, too. 

Very interesting, keep us here updated please. :) 

http://abit.spb.ru/en/ice-control/benzinovye-i-gazovye-bloki-upravleniya/m11-korvet/

 

[darki325i]

As I see the Korvet M11.x has 4 ign drivers max, so it's not possible to run the engine in full seq mode.

Why not use Link G4x Thunder, as it has 12 ign drivers and tons of I/O's?

(можешь написать мне на почту, я помогу)

[sergey_e30]

Korvet M11.x can expand up to 6 ign drivers

 

Link has 8 ign drivers:

https://www.nzefi.com/product/link-g4-thunder-ecu/

 

(все хорошо заработало на абите, спасибо за предложение)

[sergey_e30]

When choosing an engine control unit, one of the main arguments was the opportunity to abandon the S85 electronics and its unreliable electrical units. One of them is throttle valve actuators. It took a long time to choose between mechanical and electrical from another car. So far, for simplicity, it was decided to stay on the mechanical one. A couple of days of work and the throttle drive is ready

 

 

 

 

and even works, the gas opens completely, when the pedal is released, it closes quickly. Fastened to original places. The throttle cable was picked up from some BMW, then I will order a new one, more suitable in length.

 

We decided to use the idle valve from the M50 engine, made a bracket for it, rubber hoses were made from the S85 hose. Welded tubes for supplying air to the heads.

 

 

 

The flow meters were also removed, instead of them a MAP-sensor and an incoming air temperature sensor were installed.

 

 

Need to do It was also decided not to install the original gas station, consisting of 2 pumps, since it did not fit into its own tank, and the hand did not rise to cut a new original tank for 1000 euros. An Aeromotiv 340 l / s pump was installed in the tank, on the original E30 flask. According to the experience of turbo projects, it is enough for up to 600 l / s, but if suddenly it will not be enough, we will install the second one in the second half of the tank.

 

 

There is no fuel pressure valve on the S85, where the engine control unit regulates the pressure by switching on, off and reducing the voltage on the two pumps. By the way, according to reviews, this system is also one of the weak points of the S85. Instead, a fuel pressure valve AEM was installed with pressure regulation capability. A fuel pressure sensor was installed in the valve.